Thursday, December 20, 2007

The "War on Christmas" and the war on being considerate to others...

So apparently the forces of Christmas have won the battle in Boston to call their public holiday tree display a "Christmas tree."

Here's my first reaction:

Considering that there's an actual war going on -- one where real people have given their lives -- how is it possible that it's not considered poor taste for the religious right to be calling this a war? And, really, could they even think of a stupider issue to use to distract the public from real issues like the president threatening to start yet another real war?

I don't even want to touch the whole first amendment establishment clause issue because it's been thoroughly and repeatedly covered by others. What I can't figure out is why anyone would even want to wage a war against the imaginary forces of anti-Christmas.

Apparently -- throughout the public sphere -- theocrats would like to see "Merry Christmas" replace "Happy Holidays." This is because "Happy Holidays" threatens Christmas's position as the one and only holiday people might possibly be celebrating during the holiday season. And poor Christmas feels degraded when it gets lumped together with less-important holidays like New Year's and Boxing Day and whatnot.

I guess I can almost sort of see the logic to that when it concerns people who celebrate Christmas. I love Christmas, and I'm happy to wish a very Merry Christmas to all my friends and family members who celebrate Christmas. The problem is that the crusaders for Christmas seem to want to insist that a Merry Christmas -- and only a Merry Christmas -- be wished to everyone, regardless of belief, by stores, by municipal holiday displays, at office parties, etc. In that case, what does "Merry Christmas!" even mean?

Here's what it means:

"I hope you have a warm and wonderful Christmas celebration! However, I don't hope that you have a happy Hanukkah. I don't hope you and your family have a happy (Pagan) Yule or Solstice celebration or a good Ramadan. And if you and your family celebrated Diwali this year, I don't care if it was a merry one or not."

What kind of person would want to say such a thing? Have they got something against being considerate to others? Call me crazy, but to me well-wishing should have some sort of (theoretical?) connection with actually wishing the person well. And especially during the holiday season, what's wrong with a little goodwill to all? Even to those people who are **shudder** a little different from yourself.

When it comes right down to it, the so-called "War on Christmas" isn't about the Christians vs. their favorite whipping-boy the atheists, as much as they'd like to paint it that way. Atheists sometimes join in the fray just on the principle of separation of church and state, but really, the apathetic-to-non-believing set aren't the ones being excluded. Atheism has no competing holidays, so non-believers tend to just stick with familiar traditions. That means that American atheists actually celebrate Christmas more often than not. Really, the "War on Christmas" is about Christian supremacists picking on other traditions and on other "people of faith."

40 comments:

Alon Levy said...

I don't think anyone actually cares which phrase is used, except for a few hypersensitive Christians. It's the right-wing equivalent of getting pissed that not enough streets are named after Martin Luther King.

Personally, I don't care either way. There are two public holidays around this time - Christmas and New Year's. That's where the phrase comes from. Let's stop pretending the others are real. The Solstice and Yule aren't celebrated by any community. Hanukah is, but it's one of the least important Jewish holidays; Americans know about it only out of fake multiculturalism, since it's celebrated around the same time as Christmas.

New Year's is a secular holiday. They celebrate it in countries without Christians. In Israel, rabbis have to come up with creative reasons every year to crack down on New Year's parties. Christmas is not; in non-Christian countries, only Christians care for it.

John Moeller said...

Woo-hoo! That was a scathing rant!

I just wish that people would realize that it's not about suppression. It's about inclusion.

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Alon!!!

Diwali is indeed a real holiday; a cognate of Christmas and Hanukah. Just because people from India are a minority in the U.S., that's not a reason to exclude them. Similarly with Hanukah -- true it's not a significant religious holiday, it's a bit of a secular holiday. Thus, all the more reason to include it as a part of the secular festival of lights. Ditto for the Pagans who are celebrating the same holiday but may call it something else. They're real people. What do you mean their holidays "aren't real"?

Perhaps you're right that the crusaders for Christmas who claim there's a "War on Christmas" don't exist. I'd like to believe that's true, but it's not the impression I get...

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey John!!!

Yeah, I know, it's unlike me, isn't it? I have a worse one planned for the beginning of the year, and I keep trying to re-write it so that it's more positive...

John Moeller said...

That's alright. It's rare to see a rant from you, and you do it well. :-)

Jessica Bennett said...

It's the typical O'Reilly tactic of throwing down the partisan gauntlet and then blaming the left for starting the fight.

Fred Lane posted a particularly scathing piece on the topic at our blog today:

"Mission Accomplished": O'Reilly Declares Victory in the War on Christmas

Hope you'll come by and check it out!

C. L. Hanson said...

Thanks John!!! :D

And thanks for the link, Jessica!!! Good article -- this is basically what I'm talking about.

Beat Dad said...

Ah Yes, the "War on Christmas" I always thought that the aggressors in this "war" were coming from the all the big toy companies and Wal-mart.

Ironically, everyone feeds the the commercialization of Christmas by buying tons of stuff.

.....I am started go incoherent...nice rant Chanson.

Also, I do take exception with this idea that Yule is not a "real" holiday. My family celebrates Yule and I know enough people who do, that would comprise a community.

I mean isn't the prospect of having longer warmer days significant enough to celebrate?

C. L. Hanson said...

Thanks Beat Dad!!!

See, you're forgetting that it was the secret secular far-left progressive conspiracy that forced Wal-mart and the big toy companies to do that to Christmas. Duh. ;^)

I have other friends who celebrate Yule as well.

Bull said...

Then there's the co-worker whose response to "How was your Thanksgiving?" was, "Oh, I don't celebrate Thanksgiving, but I had a nice weekend."

Um. OK. Couldn't you have just said, "It was nice. Thanks for asking."

I found out later he is a Jehovah's Witness and they apparently have something against celebrating Thanksgiving. Whatever. I don't even consider it a religious holiday. I thought it was just an annual secular celebration but I guess this year the O'Reilly crowd tried to start a "War on Thanksgiving" protest against the secularization of Thanksgiving.

A pluralistic society has to come to grips with trying to be inclusive, but the members also have to be tolerant and realize that just because someone from one subculture wishes you a Merry Christmas or Happy Hannukah or whatever, it isn't meant in any way to be a slight, but just a polite greeting.

Well, at least from some people. I know that there are Christians who do actually seem to mean what you said in your post and really have no intention of being inclusive of all the sinners and non-believers that are going to hell.

esteban said...

Merry Ramachanukwanstice-christmestivus!

How are you, my friend?

e

Chuck said...

The anti-Christmas people are obviously not imaginary, or nobody would have pulled the silly stunt of pretending not to recognize a Christmas tree as a Christmas tree. As a Christmas-celebrating atheist, I thought that was the goofiest thing I'd ever heard, and I could understand why some people kind of feel attacked.

There are definitely some mean-spirited gadflies around the issue, but there are also people who just don't like seeing the American tradition of Christmas marginalized due to some hypersensitive eggshell-walking complex. A friend of mine wrote a newspaper column defending the name of a local Christmas Parade, and O'Reilly called and asked him to come on his show. My friend told O'Reilly where he could stick his "War on Christmas" propaganda. He just thought it was silly to pretend like we don't know which holiday Santa goes with.

So I think there are is something here that's worth talking about ("holiday tree"? Seriously?), but unfortunately it gets distorted into a "rah-rah, suck it, atheists" rallying cry when it goes through the media.

Eric said...

First, let me say, I am a Christian. Now, before y'all start running away or lobbing rotten tomatoes at me, understand that I am a thinking Christian,a Christian that actually tries to live like one, so I really get annoyed by these "christians" who cause a scene about things that either are not really important or are over dramatized. I thought this whole "war on christmas: ended last year, guess I am behind the times.

Yes, there are folks who have attempted to remove Christmas from the public square. They are few and they have a right to their opinion. Far more important issue faced us than whether someone refuses to say Merry Christmas, or a town won't allow a Christmas tree in the city park. Say whatever you wish to me, "Happy holidays, Merry Christmas, Have a nice day, Come back soon and let me take more of your money. It matters not to me. I will say, Merry Christmas, and Happy Hanukah, and Joyous Kwanza, and whatever else is appropriate.
Or I might just say, Happy holidays.

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Bull!!!

I'm not talking about people who say "Merry Christmas" because they think the person they're talking to probably celebrates Christmas. I'm talking about the O'Reilly "how dare those godless liberals water down Christmas with their evil multicultural inclusiveness" types. Especially considering that much of the move towards "Happy Holidays" (in stores, for example) isn't because of godless liberals (who typically celebrate Christmas) but rather is the result of market forces (which Republicans theoretically should like).

That said, I see nothing wrong with your coworker's response. If he doesn't celebrate Thanksgiving, then why not say so when he's asked directly about it? It would be different if he'd been offended that someone had assumed he celebrated Thanksgiving, but that doesn't sound like the case.

Thanks Esteban!!!

Merry Ramachanukwanstice-christmestivus to you too!!! We're doing great! :D

Hey Chuck!!!

So you can see being worried about the American tradition of Christmas getting marginalized? Are you kidding? Please walk down any residental street. Go to any bookstore and look at the books on the display tables. Note that practically every blog on my blogroll is doing a full month of "favorite Christmas traditions" including mine (plus here). And that's just the beginning.

I want to try to understand your concern, but seriously, if you think that the American tradition of Christmas is in danger of being "marginalized due to some hypersensitive eggshell-walking complex" then I'm afraid you've fallen for the O'Reillyesque propaganda. The American tradition of Christmas survived the Puritans' ban on it, it survived through a major transition around the time that the poem "Twas the night before Christmas" was written, and it will survive the information age as well -- it's not only not diminishing, it's growing.

Hey Eric!!!

Don't worry -- Christians are welcome on this blog. I hope you're right that the "War on Christmas" is over and the people who said there was one have claimed victory. Good riddance to all that. Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to you!!!

mathmom said...

Chanson--- Is there a french equivalent to "Happy Holidays?" Do people wish each other "Joyeux Noel" even though France is a very secular society?

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Mathmom!!!

That is a very good question. I keep thinking I should write about the situation here in France, yet I feel a little conflicted about it, so I'm not sure exactly what to say. I guess things that are a little confusing make for good discussion posts, so I'll probably write a post about it and before the year ends, with pictures of all the holiday lights and the Christmas trees put up by the city of Bordeaux. :D

To answer your question, the equivalent in French would be "Joyeaux Fêtes" or "Bonne Fête." This time of year, these are used interchangably with "Joyeaux Noël" and I don't think there's any controversy about it. The same terms get used for other holidays -- for example the standard way to wish your mom a happy Mother's Day is to say "Bonne Fête, Maman."

the chaplain said...

Good post. I wrote something similar on my family/Christian friends blog. I wanted to give the Christians I know something to think about. I don't think I'm going to post it at the chapel, however, as all of those readers have access to lots of good posts on the topic, such as yours.

C. L. Hanson said...

Thanks Chaplain!!!

That's cool that you're bringing up this question to friends and family. Now I'm curious as to what you wrote...

Laura said...

Wow, you hit the nail on the head with this post!

C. L. Hanson said...

Thanks Laura!!!

This is essentially what I've been thinking ever since I first heard of the "War on Christmas." For me, one of the most interesting things about Christmas has always been the eclectic mix of traditions. And recognizing that it's part of a family of traditions that includes a lot of non-Christian holidays doesn't diminish Christmas, it adds to the fun. I've always felt that way, even when I was a kid and a believer.

Chuck said...

Of course you're right that Christmas isn't going anywhere. In the same way, Ramadan isn't going to disappear just because someone at my office party starts yelling "Merry Christmas! Don't you love Jesus Christ?" at all the Muslims. But I'm talking about how people feel.

When we chide people for saying "Christmas" and euphemize it to "Happy Holidays" (and yes, I think it is euphemistic — nobody says "Happy Holidays" around Labor Day even though the biggest holiday of the Jewish calendar is also then), it can make people feel like they're doing something wrong by celebrating Christmas. I don't feel that way, but I can see that's how people react.

It's the same way some folks no longer know what they should call black people — they've been made to feel uncomfortable talking about the subject as all, because it seems like they're bound to offend somebody. It's not necessarily reality, but it can seem this way when people all around you are clamoring to get "Christmas" removed from things. (And like I said, this does happen in some places -- you yourself mentioned the Boston Christmas Tree.)

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Chuck!!!

Well it looks like you see subtraction where I see addition. True, apparently the tree in Boston had been called a "Holiday Tree" before they changed it to "Christmas Tree." But I'm not sure precisely how it got called a "Holiday Tree" in the first place.

But as for people who feel bad about celebrating Christmas themselves just because some people prefer to say "Happy Holidays" to people they don't know? Have you met a single one? I haven't. Such a (hypothetical) person would seem awfully hypersensitive to me, and I thought you were the one complaining about having to worry about the feelings of hypersensitive people... ;^)

Tom Clark said...

When people wish me Merry Christmas I say thank you. I don't say it back but I do say to them, "Happy Holidays to you too." I don't say Merry Christmas anymore because I don't feel comfortable saying it. It sure doesn't offend me though when people say it to me. And I think Happy Holidays is a perfectly appropriate response that shows respect and acknowledgment.

And yet...

My practicing Jewish friends sometimes say Merry Christmas to me and sometimes they say Happy Holidays. The sentiment is the same either way. During their high holidays I say to them "Shanah Tovah." I think it would me more than a little weird on Yom Kippur for example, to say Merry Christmas?

I called some Israeli friends of mine and specifically inquired as to what the proper greeting would be for the high holidays. Why? Because I wanted to say something a little more meaningful when it came to honoring their practices and traditions. In other words, I'm all over the map. Maybe because Judaism doesn't touch me personally I don't have a problem with Shanah Tovah. And also, Shanah Tovah doesn't have a god's name in it. That could be the difference.

In the end I guess I just don't understand why the fundamentalists are making such a big deal out of this. Are they afraid Jesus is going to disappear if they don't keep saying his name or derivatives of his name over and over and over?

I'm mystified by all the controversy over holiday greetings. I'm not really clear about it myself I guess. But I really don't care what others say or do as long as I'm comfortable with what I'm saying or doing.

One of my dearest friends who is Jewish asked me if I was still involved in the whole Christmas thing. I told her I wasn't and she asked what she should say to me for the holidays then. I told her she should say to me, "I have a boyfriend for you and he's rich and handsome and hung like a horse."

I think that would be a nice greeting for the holidays, oui`?

C. L. Hanson said...

Tom, you are the most adorable thing ever!!! How's that for a holiday greeting? ;^)

But really, your comment expresses what I'm talking about. Regardless of your own traditions, why not show a little consideration for your friends? And as your story shows, interest, curiosity, and exchange follow. :D

C. L. Hanson said...

p.s. to mathmom: I meant "Joyeuses Fêtes." (How embarrassing -- I knew it looked wrong when I wrote it. Too bad blogger doesn't let me edit these comments... ;^) )

the deacon said...

A host of reasons exists for the pushing and forcing the Christmas issue into the public square. For some they see it as a political cause to help gain them support. For some it seems more it about ratings and pet issues. Still for many others I believe it has more to do with a combination of an over-romantic view of Christmas’ past, lack of historical perspective as to the essence of the message of peace and fear of multiculturalism.

Christmas as we know it in North America has been a cultural holiday for five or more decades. The religious message is secondary to much of what is done ahead and during the holiday.

What is most interesting is that if the Church’s theology is understood correctly, Christmas should not be the main celebration and focus. The Christmas story is secondary to the Easter story, both Good Friday and Easter Sunday.

What a hoot that Christians fight for everyone to say “Merry Christmas” but when it comes to their main celebration on Good Friday, Christians go to work as normal and most do not attend Good Friday services. They fight over Christmas while their celebration of Easter, the heart of their faith, is anemic.

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Deacon!!!

Good points. It's important to keep in mind that O'Reilly isn't speaking for all Christians and there's no reason for Christians to assume they have to agree with him just because he claims he's their champion.

The Sinister Porpoise said...

Even though it ends tomorrow, I'd like to say a hearty Io Saturnalia!

Anyway, taking offense at either Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays is stupid.

But, even as a Republican, I really don't believe in some of the crusades Fox News chooses to support...

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Sinister Porpoise!!!

Io Saturnalia!!!

I'm with you completely about taking offense. I don't think people should take offense when others with them joyous celebrations of holidays they don't celebrate. But honestly, I don't think that's the problem here. The problem is people taking offense when others want to recognize that there are mid-winter holidays besides Christmas. Frankly, these crusaders for Christmas need to stop being so sensitive and stop getting offended by the existence of other people's holidays.

Alon Levy said...

Diwali is celebrated about a month before Christmas. If the phrase Happy Holidays includes it, I reserve the right to wish people a Merry Christmas right before Chinese New Year.

Pagan holidays are celebrated about the same time as Christmas, but they're too New Agey to be serious, as opposed to funny ideas like Towel Day and Talk Like a Pirate Day. Atheists who come from a Christian background celebrate Christmas; atheists who come from a Jewish one celebrate Passover. There's no Pagan background for whose atheists to celebrate the Solstices.

Chuck, the phrase Happy Holidays dates back to the 1940s, when it was a shorthand for Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Nobody says happy holidays around Labor Day because there's only one holiday around that time Americans have heard of. I mean, yeah, there are some goofballs who talk about holiday trees, but the whole reason they're goofballs is that they care about those trivialities instead of do something useful to further multiculturalism, like lobby for more teaching of foreign languages and translated literature in schools.

Alon Levy said...

Also on the subject of multiculturalism, if you want to be serious about it, you should do what the middle school I went to did. There, every group got its own holidays. Before Diwali there were posters about the holiday and about Indian culture, before the Christmas break my drama class did a spoof of nativity plays, and before Chinese New Year there were acts about the Chinese zodiac and the animal represented by the coming year.

A lot of it was fake and contrived, but some was real. Most importantly, each group got to set its own holiday dates. The American equivalent of that would be to celebrate Passover in addition to Christmas, rather than pretend the most important holiday always falls around the end of December. The current way it's done in liberal America is best summed as, "And though I am a committed Christian, I believe that everyone has the right to their own religion, be you Hindu, Jewish or Muslim. I believe there are infinite paths to accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior."

It's the same thing with black people. Some white liberals worry about whether it's better to say black or African-American. Others know black people, or read what black people say.

Patience said...

Alon, I sincerely hope you're enjoying your ignorant statements. It would be a pity if you were being hyperbolic for no fun reason.

"There's no Pagan background for whose atheists to celebrate the Solstices."

Hi. I'm an atheist from a Pagan and semi-Christian (mom was an agnostic, raised Lutheran) background, and I do still acknowledge the solstices and equinoxes and may or may not light a candle (depends on if I have a candle, really). There are plenty of us out there. Please stop saying things that are totally unsupportable?

Also, this is really uncalled for:
"Pagan holidays are celebrated about the same time as Christmas, but they're too New Agey to be serious, as opposed to funny ideas like Towel Day and Talk Like a Pirate Day." Just because you dislike them, they don't qualify as 'real' holidays? But Christmas IS a real holiday? How arrogant.

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Alon!!!

I know Diwali is a month before Christmas -- I've been to a Diwali celebration (and Hindu services) with friends from India. The reason I include it in this list is because it's a festival of light from the Indo-European tradition, thus I think it traces back to the same family of traditions as Christmas and the "festival of lights" aspect of Hanukkah (which was added to the original story of military victory probably because of Hellenic influences). It looks like the "trick or treat" aspect of Halloween and the wassailing (for charity/donations) aspect of Christmas also trace back to a common family of Pagan traditions. Recognizing only one incarnation of a given tradition cuts off so much richness, like cutting a symphony down to the parts of a few instruments. So, yes, I do mean to include a happy (belated) Diwali in my "Happy Holidays" wish. If you want to wish people "Merry Christmas" right around the time you're throwing your parties for Chinese New Year -- if you're sincere about it -- then knock yourself out. ;^)

Personally, I just happen to like traditions -- I think they're interesting. Even the deliberately invented ones like Thanksgiving (though admittedly that one is not nearly as fun as "Talk Like a Pirate Day" ;^) ).

To be honest, I think I would have loved to have gone to a middle school that did what you describe. This is one of the things I loved about living in New Jersey -- learning about different cultures first-hand. In addition to learning about Indian traditions, there was such a large Jewish community that the Jewish traditions got included by Jewish people themselves, not as lip-service to multiculturalism. It was just a stupid little thing, but one of my most amusing memories was receiving the usual weekly supermarket flyer wishing me and my family a happy Passover. This was the same supermarket whose flyers would be alternately wishing me a Happy Halloween or Merry Christmas in other flyers, but it was fun because, well, it was an example of people making assumptions that are a little different from the usual assumptions. (BTW, regardless of what one may read into my article, I'm not opposed to stores wishing people a "Merry Christmas" -- I'm fine with that -- I just think it's stupid for people to insist that stores exclude other holidays.) Anyway, I thought it was really cool to walk around downtown Princeton during the holiday season and see some stores decorated for Christmas alternating with stores decorated for Hanukkah.

I know that in some ways emphasizing Hanukkah in particular seems to indicate ignorance of Jewish traditions because -- as you pointed out -- it's far from being a significant holiday for the Jewish religion. But to me it makes perfect sense. Christmas, by logic, should not be an important Christian holiday (especially compared to, say, Easter, and considering the fact that most Christians who are versed in theology don't think Jesus was born on December 25th). But it has risen to prominence because of cultural and secular reasons. The same thing has happened (in America, at least) to Hannukkah, and since there's no deep religious significance to blaspheme), why not have a public "festival of lights" that celebrates how this tradition has passed through different cultures?

Here in France, by contrast, I can learn about different traditions by walking down the street and looking around, but I haven't seen much in the way of deliberate multiculturalism. I think they're a good deal more aggressive here about cultural assimilation than Americans are. The idea seems to be "If you want to live here, then you will become French" regardless of what culture you came from originally. There's no religion allowed in the public schools, but they celebrate (secular) Noël in the schools like nobody's business. So in my kids' school we have little Muslim kids making Santas and Christmas trees to bring home to their parents. Is this good or bad? I really don't know. That's what I was talking about in terms of being conflicted about it (in my response to MathMom, above).

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Patience!!!

Happy (bleated) Solstice!!! I think Alon means well, but seems to have a weirdly stereotyped view of what "white liberals" are like.

Holly said...

I'm late to this particular Christmas party--or war on Christmas--but the nice thing about that is that I've gotten to read some pretty interesting comments. Hey Tom--you rock! You are the kind of friend I'd be happy to have wish me anything, and yours is a very nice statement of the approach I try to take myself.

For the record, I'm an agnostic/ leaning-to-atheist recovering Mormon who still likes Christmas carols, all things decorated with holly, the smell of fresh-cut pine and presents under the tree.

But I also celebrate solstice, and the one celebration I don't care for is the forced frivolity of New Year's Eve.

One of the things that puzzles me about the "war on christmas" business is the way the "war on Christmas" used to be something people waged when they made it too "commercial"--that was always the big deal when I was a little girl: you weren't truly feeling the Christmas if you weren't claiming that someone else put too much emphasis on toys and Santa. I don't hear so much about that--of course I don't go to church at all these days, so maybe I just get to miss those sermons. But it does still seem to be the case that part of the proper holiday spirit involves getting bent out of shape about someone else's attitude to December 24 and December 25.

One of the first groups to ban the celebration of Christmas was the New England Puritans, who felt that partying on a religious holiday meant that you didn't experience it with the proper reverence. They wanted to ban such greeting as "Merry Christmas" because Christmas wasn't supposed to be merry; it was supposed to be somber and thoughtful. You can say they were joyless, but you can't say they weren't christian.

I still think that the holiday/Christmas greeting "bah, humbug!" is used far too seldom. I forgot to trot it out this year--I pretty much went with "Merry Christmas"--but I'll try to remember it for next year.

Bah, humbug! :-D

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Holly!!!

That's a good point -- back when we were kids the supposed threat to Christmas was the commercialism of it (as I discussed in my post about the Grinch). But that seems to have taken a backseat to complaining about the threat posed by multiculturalism. It's probably because "stimulating the economy" (by buying lots of crap) has lately become a patriotic activity, thus no longer criticized. But I think you've hit on the truest, most longstanding Christmas tradition: complaining that somebody else is celebrating it wrong. ;^)

"Bah Humbug!" is a great traditional Christmas greeting!!! Humbug to you too! And, y'know, Merry Christmas!! :D

C. L. Hanson said...

Oh, and speaking of humbug, Have a look at this!!! The perfect holiday decoration for every Christmas-loving Scrooge!!! :D

John Evo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Evo said...

And, really, could they even think of a stupider issue to use to distract the public from real issues like the president threatening to start yet another real war?

How true. Benazir Bhutto gets assassinated because she's a WOMAN who dares to tell Muslim men that they might just have it all wrong... and we have a "war on Christmas".

Very nice post, C.L. Keep up the good work. You definitely deserved your Stermie Award!

C. L. Hanson said...

Thanks John!!!