Thursday, April 03, 2008

Does religious belief require creation science?

I wasn't planning to post about the movie Expelled again because, frankly, I didn't want to insult my religious readers by rubbing their noses in this story and suggesting that these Expelled hypocrites represent them. Unfortunately, one of the borderland blogs decided that it would be a good idea to get some orthodox cred by shilling for this embarrassment to Christianity, so let's talk about it again.

So the Expelled guys think their views are unfairly silenced in the marketplace of ideas, do they? Well, let's remedy that!!! Right now.

Please add your two cents on my Main Street Plaza post Does religious belief require creation science?

Now for the pleasure of those who'd rather skip the discussion and just believe that there really is an atheist conspiracy to expel creationist dissenters from scientific discourse, I present this hilarious rap, in which all the villains of godless science sing about how and why they did it!!! :D


B.G. Christensen said...


"Hell, if I was dyslexic I'd even hate dogs."

I love it!

C. L. Hanson said...

I know, that was one of my favorite lines too!!! lol

Lars Larson said...

Ms. Hanson! I think that the PZ Myers thing was absolutely hil-LAR-ious! I can't get over it! They pull him out of line and leave DAWKINS alone? I can't wait to think about it ALL DAY LONG.

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey ErlyBrd!!!

I know, that was too funny!!! But from what I've heard they didn't realize Dawkins was coming. P. Z. had pre-registered for the screening using his own name, but even though Dawkins showed identification at the door, he was just on the list as a guest of P. Z.

C. L. Hanson said...

p.s. I found a possible transcript of the lyrics here (with a few modifications based on my own hearing):

Beware the Believers

Hello, is this on?
Can I get some more hydrogen in my test tube, please?

Dawkins: My name is D to the I to C to the K,
yeah I'm the DickyD, I gots my PhD,
and comin' your way on the Youtube, to bust your world view,
so just listen to me and don't you argue.

You see, this battle's been ragin' since Zeus was on the bottle,
'tween Science like Democritus and Faith like Aristotle,
who said the mover was unmovin' like some magic trick,
but that's not good logic, my posse's far too quick for this religious schtik.

'Cuz science is the only way to know y'all,
you stand with me y'all, or you can fall y'all,
so go ahead and take your pick...
Scott: Yeah you tell him Rick!
Darwin: 'Cuz if you don't know me

Chorus [Myers]: Yeah he's the Dick to the Dawk to the PhD,
he's smarter than you, he's got a science degree!
Dick to the Dawk to the PhD,
he's smarter than you, he's got a science degree!

Harris: On the shoulders of midgets we built up this machine,
Dennett: Yeah!
Dawkins: Science silenced that watchdog wingnut Paley
growing stronger and harder almost daily,
storming Wilber by force as we framed the discourse
that faith and science are split in schismatic divorce.

Then Darwin took to the seas to see what no one had seen,
and ever since then we've been increasingly keen,
they may never adore us, but they'll no longer ignore us,
give it to 'em PZ hit these BLEEP with the chorus!!!

Chorus: Yo he's the Dick to the Dawk to the PhD,
he's smarter than you, he's got a science degree!
Dick to the Dawk to the PhD,
he's still smarter than you, he studied biology!

Myers: And then there was Darrow,
Dawkins: dukin' it out for the straight and the narrow,
a ragin' bull in the ring, he did his thing,
and took it on the chin like he was Bobby De Niro.
We might have lost at Scopes, beaten down by the dopes,
and the stooges of popes, but in losin' we coped,
becomin' more than we hoped,
creationists slipped on the soap of
their own slippery slope.

What was impossible, improbable, is now wholly unstoppable untoppleable,
the Dick Dawk'll roll up as you creationists foldup,
you haters talkin' bull, don't you know that this Dick is un-BLEEP-frickin' blockable?

Chorus: Yo he's the Dick to the Dawk to the phd,
he's smarter than you, he's got a science degree!
Dick to the Dawk to the PhD,
he's still smarter than you, he studied biology!

Dawkins: Now the machine of our making, sees culture ripe for the taking,
'cuz I'm the rappinest, rabidest atheist who,
unlike the Catholic, the Muslim or even the Jew,
believes that no God but science could ever be true,
hell, if I was dyslexic I'd even hate "dog" too.

Time to open your eyes, get yourself wise,
the age of sciences will rise to be religion's demise,
and while you churchies all cry, shouting 'why God oh why?'
I'll still be poppin' my collar earning more dollars than Allah.

Darwin: What? You've sold out.

Chorus: Yo he's the Dick to the Dawk to the phd,
he's smarter than you, he's got a science degree!
Dick to the Dawk to the phd,
he's still smarter than you, he studied biology!

The Sinister Porpoise said...

Oh for heaven's sake, is this still going on? It is possible to have religious beliefs and still not believe the Earth is 6,000 years old.

I'd be more impressed with the idiots pushing intelligent design if they could at least bother not to lump theories that belong to different branches of Science again.

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Sinister Porpoise!!!

That's basically the point. Once you decide that it's "discrimination" not to publish holy writ in research journals, where do we draw the line? Does anti-Evolution quote-mining count as research while 6000-year-old Earth creationists are laughable? or do young Earth Creationists deserve equal time too? or Thor or FSM? You can't claim to be in favor of science (and not just the word "science") if you expect to have a line-item veto on the results.

Lars Larson said...

What is NOT possible is to have religious beliefs while still being logical. It's not EVEN science and religion that are at's LOGIC and religion.

It is infuriating and depressing to know that the vast majority of the human beings (supposedly the species in control) now crowding this planet cling to superstition and call it a reasonable way, no, the DEFAULT way of thinking.

I understand the delight of parody as much as the next guy but I still feel a sting of anger and feel the insult when I realize that every last figure in this hilLARious piece will be known in 100 years (if they are not already) as the ones brave enough to set forth the trend which will, hopefully, relegate religion to the same scrapheap of non-respectability as astrology.

People will still believe, as they do in astrology now...but we won't have to give them due scholarly respect anymore or argue with them as "experts" on panel discussions that decide what our kids will be learning in school. There will be no more accredited "Schools of Divinity". Even if it does seem intolerant we are right to throw these people out of universities or at least deny them tenure. Ben Stein and all of his deluded ilk shouldn't even get to propose ideas in intellectual circles, let alone be taken seriously in them. RELIGION IS NOT AN INTELLECTUAL EXERCISE.

Damn, I can be such an asshole!

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey ErlyBrd!!!

Well you can have a look at my MSP post linked above if you'd like to join in the debate about the incompatibility of logic and religion.

I agree with you, however, that standing up for science is the brave position. It's infuriating to see people still championing the cause of ignorance, but it's indicative of the state of math and science education today that people can't expect to learn the basic skills to evaluate the I. D. movement's anti-science claims.

I think that religion can potentially inspire both good and evil. Those who would like to tip the scales in favor of showing that religion inspires good would do well to counter some of the havoc that the political movement "the Religious Right" has done in the name of Christianity if they don't want to keep driving good people away from Christianity. Naturally attacking science education figures prominently on my list, but it's not the only item. Please see The Religious Right vs. Young People.

The Sinister Porpoise said...

"There are more things on heaven and earth than our dreampt of in our philosophy."

Religious belief has a place in society.

Lars Larson said...

Religious belief has a place in a superstitious society...yes, it does. And we are DEFINITELY a supertitious society. I am very worried to see what supertitious people will do WITHOUT religion...YIKES! But we will confront that eventually and we will be better for it in the long run.

I agree with you, though...religion DOES have a place in society...but it would speak very well of humans if it DIDN'T. The Hamlet quote is one of my favorites but I have never taken it to mean religion is ok. In fact, I would say that religion WANTS us to believe that there ISN'T anything important we don't have in our "philosophy". It is SCIENCE that accepts its own ignorance...not religion.

Sorry to muddy the waters, Ms. Hanson. And I don't mean to say that religion cannot inspire good in people. But religious people doing good things does not make the relgion any less ridiculous.

C. L. Hanson said...

Hey Sinister Porpoise and ErlyBrd!!!

Well, I've discussed religion in general in a number of posts (have a look at my list of posts on religion), but whether religion is good or bad, logical, inevitable, etc., isn't really the point of today's discussion. Today I'd like to focus more on the question of whether lying for the Lord about how science works a good idea, or whether it's perhaps counterproductive for the religions involved...

The Sinister Porpoise said...

But it's not lying if they believe it.

Therein lies the problem.

C. L. Hanson said...

Very true, and for that it depends on which "they" we're talking about. As noted in the comments of my MSP post, the Discovery Institute exists to create "the controversy", and they tell the press that "Intelligent Design" is secular science while simultaneously marketing it to the religious right as Creationism. These guys know they're lying -- it's their whole strategy. Same for the "Expelled" guys. The fact that they're marketing "the controversy" directly to churches (while shutting out anyone who might take a critical or even neutral eye to their claims) shows pretty clearly that they know what they're up to.

On the other hand, the pastors and church groups who are the target audience for "the controversy" may well be sincerely taken in by it. Listening to what they want to hear (and reciting it without scrutinizing it) isn't quite the same thing as deliberate lying.

Then there's the third level: kids in school who (due to the D. I.'s efforts) are being taught falsehoods by authority figures and not recieving any kind of education about real science or even critical thinking. These kids aren't liars for learning what their teachers tell them, rather they're being horribly shortchanged. K-12 math and science education in the U. S. is in a sorry enough state as it is, but that's not a reason to give up and flush it down the toilet entirely. Instead it's a reason to make it a priority to improve it and teach our kids the skills they need to compete in the global economy.

C. L. Hanson said...

Here's another amusing take on Expelled: Concerned "Woman" Reviews Expelled.